I was telling Greg how much I've enjoyed reading everyone's posts, but that I feel like I'm incapable of contributing an intelligent response. He suggested I just write "Me like book. It good." Ha. That made me laugh. Just thought I'd share.
Here's maybe a dumb question. Since sending Jesus to die for our sins, does God really still "punish" His people?
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3 comments:
Greg is hilarious!
Here's my two cents on this question, which by the way is not a dumb thing to think about at all...
It seems to me that one would first need to come to a conclusion regarding who exactly is included in those labeled as "the people of God." It is my understanding that it only includes two groups of people: 1) pre-Jesus, it includes only those who were trusting in God alone and looking forward to the coming Messiah (not necessarily all of the Israelites/Jews) , and 2) post-Jesus, it includes only those who are trusting in Jesus as the Messiah and have personal relationships with him not only as their Savior but also as their Lord.
What I understand the Bible to say is that there will be a remnant of Jews who will be saved. Because there is just a remnant, obviously this means that there are many Jews who will not be saved and are therefore not considered to be part of God's chosen/elect. (See Isaiah 10, especially vv. 20-22; See also Romans Chapters 9-11)
With regard to the Holocaust, it seems to me that it's possible that God could have used these circumstances to draw out from the Jewish line some of those who would trust in Jesus and would become saved.
Side-note: It seems to me that there is a difference by definition between punishment and discipline. Punishment is simply meeting out just consequences without the desire to necessarily restore one to right standing. On the other hand, discipline could be positive or negative and could be proactive (to direct us before we get into trouble) or based on consequences (to teach us through our experiences what is right or wrong). In any situation, discipline is always used with the purpose of correction and restoring one to right standing.
So, with regard to God's people, if we are careful to define this group appropriately, then I think the following is safe to say:
God does not punish his people, but rather he does use both positive and negative circumstances to discipline (teach and train) us--always with the purpose in mind of restoring us to our right standing with him and expelling sin from our lives (otherwise known as sanctification, which happens over time until we die). (See 1 Cor. 11 (esp. v. 32); Hebrews 12 (esp. vv. 5-11); and Revelation 3:19)
As for punishment, I think that God has definitely demonstrated that he does indeed punish those who are not His people. That is, he uses negative consequences--even hell--to show his just wrath to sinners without the intention of bringing them to a right standing with him. (See Jude--all of it)
Anyone else have any thoughts on it?
I believe I should have been grammatically correct and written, "Here ARE my two cents..." Oh well. :)
I think it's a good question! Well, I guess it'd have to start out with the fact that I come from the camp that God desires all men to be saved and Jesus died for everyone and gives everyone the option of choosing or rejecting the gift of salvation. I think that's important because it certainly changes the angle at which you interpret Scripture/view other issues.
It seems to me that by all men have the punishment of their sin upon them. But those who trust in Jesus have been released of that punishment (since He paid the ransom and we are now free). So, if people haven't accepted Christ, they are still under that punishment. But if we have accepted that gift of salvation, then we are no longer punished, but definitely are disciplined (like it talks about in Hebrews).
That's all I got :). What are your thoughts?
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